Daniel Thomason is a Product Manager at Google, focused on digital payments. Thomason is also an expert in everything from launching everything from new businesses to using his economics degrees to determine how to make the products we use safer, more accessible and even more intelligent. Plus, Thomason also got a perfect score on the Bloomberg’s Mensa-like test. Pulse 2.0 interviewed Daniel Thomason to learn more about his journey.
Daniel Thomason’s Background
Please give us some background on yourself and the genesis of your economics and product management journeys. Thomason said:
“My journey to product management has been quite unconventional, but my diverse background has equipped me with a unique set of skills and experiences which I continue to draw on daily. I began my career as a central bank economist in Australia, where I focused on analyzing financial stability and banknote quality. Working alongside brilliant and meticulous colleagues, I developed skills and habits that have served me well throughout my career, such as clear writing, precise data analysis, and effective email and calendar management. However, I found myself drawn to a faster pace and the opportunity to create something more tangible.”
“Driven by this desire, I made the decision to strike out on my own and founded an escape room company. This venture, which is still thriving today and has even won a few awards, allowed me to fully immerse myself in every aspect of the business. From designing rooms and puzzles and handling marketing to literally painting the walls, I had a hand in everything. This experience ignited my passion for entrepreneurship and product development, setting the stage for my transition into product management.”
“It was a friend who first suggested that if I wanted to take the escape room experience and apply it on a larger scale, a product management role would be the perfect fit. As it turns out, he couldn’t have been more right! The skills I acquired during my time as a central bank economist, such as attention to detail and data-driven decision-making, combined with the hands-on experience of running my own business, have proven invaluable in my role as a product manager.”
“Looking back, I’m grateful for the winding path that led me to where I am today. Each step of the journey has contributed to my unique perspective and ability to approach challenges with a multifaceted lens. My economics background has instilled in me a deep understanding of financial systems and data analysis, while my entrepreneurial experience has fostered creativity, adaptability, and a user-centric mindset. This fusion of skills and experiences has been instrumental in my success as a product manager, allowing me to effectively navigate the ever-evolving landscape of technology and deliver innovative solutions that resonate with users.”
Experiences Utilized For Current Role
You have quite a storied background and even founded a global escape room. Can you discuss how all of your experiences have come together to bring you where you are today? Thomason shared:
“My diverse background has been a true asset in shaping my journey to where I am today. Each experience, from studying economics to founding an escape room company, has contributed to my growth and provided me with a unique set of skills that I now apply in my role at Google.”
“My interest in solving complex problems and expanding my understanding of the real world led me to study economics. I loved the combination of rigorous analysis with a focus on problems affecting people’s real lives that economics offered, and decided to go straight from theory to practice. I worked for a while as an economist at Australia’s central bank, but eventually realized that the pace of the work didn’t quite align with my preferences. This realization prompted me to take a leap of faith and start an escape room company in Sydney with my girlfriend (now wife) and a business partner.”
“Running the escape room business was an exhilarating and exhausting experience. I found myself wearing many hats, from creating the website and designing the room to handling marketing and even physically dragging free furniture across the city. Although it was incredibly rewarding, I quickly learned that the growth of an escape room is directly proportional to the founders’ blood, sweat, and tears. A friend of mine, noticing my enthusiasm for bringing new things to life, suggested that I consider a career in tech as a product manager, where I could scratch that same itch but on a much larger scale.”
“Taking that advice to heart, I embarked on my product management journey in Berlin, embracing the challenge of not only changing careers but also adapting to a new continent and language. I explored various industries to find my niche and eventually landed in fintech, where I discovered a perfect blend of my product skills and economics background. The complex problems in the fintech space fascinated me, and I had the opportunity to work on different aspects of payments, from growth and compliance to partnerships. This exposure was crucial, as making meaningful progress in this field requires a comprehensive understanding of all the moving parts.”
“When Google approached me a few years ago with the opportunity to contribute to the development of Google Wallet and elevate the contactless payments product, I knew it was a chance I couldn’t pass up. It has been an incredible experience to apply the fintech and payments expertise I gained in the startup world to the scale and reach that a company like Google offers.”
“Looking back, I can see how each step of my journey has prepared me for my current role. My economics background provided a solid foundation in problem-solving and understanding complex systems, while my entrepreneurial experience with the escape room fostered creativity, resilience, and a customer-centric mindset. The diverse product management roles I held in Berlin allowed me to refine my skills and gain valuable insights into the fintech industry. Now, at Google, I have the privilege of combining all these experiences to drive innovation and make a significant impact in the world of contactless payments.”
Thoughts About The Evolving Digital Payments Space
Digital payments is a space that is ever-evolving. Can you give us your thoughts on where it is headed over the next 24-36 months and why? Thomason explained:
“The digital payments landscape is constantly evolving, but given the industry’s long history and inherent inertia, significant changes tend to unfold gradually. However, the COVID-19 pandemic has accelerated the adoption of digital payments, and we’re still experiencing the effects of this shift.”
“Over the next 24-36 months, one of the most notable trends to watch is the rise of digital wallets, particularly in countries like the United States. The West is beginning to catch up with Asia in recognizing the immense potential and convenience that these products offer consumers. As digital wallets continue to gain popularity, they are likely to capture a larger share of the payments market, even as the overall market expands.”
“Another key factor shaping the future of digital payments is the impact of artificial intelligence (AI). AI-driven innovations are set to push boundaries in various aspects of the industry, including fraud prevention, business expense management, and consumer finance. By leveraging AI, payment solutions will become smarter, more secure, and better equipped to detect and prevent fraudulent activities.”
“The role of cryptocurrencies in the future of digital payments remains uncertain, given the dramatic boom and bust cycles we’ve witnessed. While some ongoing projects, such as Worldcoin, aim to address real-world problems and have the potential to drive significant innovation, it’s unclear whether they will lead to lasting changes in the payments landscape. In the near term, I anticipate that the future of payments will be characterized by steady, incremental improvements in security and convenience, rather than sudden, revolutionary shifts.”
“So over the next 24-36 months, we can expect to see continued growth in the adoption of digital wallets, ongoing enhancements driven by AI, and potentially some surprises from the cryptocurrency space. Although the pace of change may be gradual, the overall trajectory of the digital payments industry is undoubtedly towards more streamlined, secure, and user-friendly payment solutions that cater to the evolving needs of consumers and businesses alike.”
Challeges With Security
One of the big challenges and concerns in the digital payments landscape is security. What are your thoughts on this and what steps can we take to ensure our private information remains secure? Thomason noted:
“Security is indeed one of the most critical concerns in the digital payments landscape. While the industry has established robust standards like the Payment Card Industry Data Security Standards (PCI-DSS) to protect against hacking, it’s crucial to recognize that it’s an ongoing battle. Hackers are constantly seeking new ways to penetrate systems, which means that we must continuously evolve our defenses to stay ahead of the curve.”
“As individuals, we have a responsibility to be aware of the risks and take proactive steps to safeguard our personal information. This includes adopting basic security practices such as using strong, unique passwords for our financial accounts, exercising caution when entering payment information online, and regularly monitoring our transaction history for any suspicious activity.”
“To further enhance the security of our financial lives, there are several key steps we can take:
- Use strong, unique passwords: This is especially important for email accounts and any platform where payment information is stored. Rather than relying on our memory, which is not well-suited for remembering complex passwords, it’s advisable to use a password manager. These tools generate and securely store long, random passwords that are unique to each login.
- Enable two-factor authentication: Two-factor authentication adds an extra layer of security to our accounts, making it much harder for hackers to gain unauthorized access. This is particularly crucial for email and bank accounts, and many countries have made it mandatory for payment-related services. While SMS-based authentication is better than nothing, it’s the least secure method. Opting for an authenticator app instead provides a higher level of protection.
- Use digital wallets: Adding your payment cards to the digital wallet on your phone, such as Apple Pay or Google Pay, offers increased security when making transactions. The card information stored in your phone is represented by a unique “device token,” which is used during the payment process instead of your actual card number. This means that even if a breach occurs, your sensitive card information remains protected.”
“By adopting these practices and staying vigilant, we can significantly reduce the risk of falling victim to financial fraud or identity theft. However, it’s important to remember that security is a shared responsibility. While individuals must do their part, payment service providers and merchants also need to prioritize security, invest in robust systems, and adhere to industry standards to create a safer digital payments ecosystem for everyone.”
Business Advice
What are the three best pieces of advice anyone has ever given you in business and who gave them to you? Thomason highlighted:
“I’ve had a lot of wonderful mentors in my career so far, and benefitted from the wisdom passed down by countless business authors. Here are three of the bits of advice that have been most influential, paraphrased lightly due to the limitations of human memory:
- ‘To know what your priorities are, look at where your time goes’ – Peter Drucker. Reading this tidbit from the preeminent management sage of our times totally changed my relationship with my calendar. Instead of reacting to whatever fire came up in the moment, I started deliberately scheduling blocks of time for my most important priorities, and fitting everything else around these. Total gamechanger!
- ‘To get promoted, you want to be easy to work with and easy to cheer for’ – Eleanor Stribling. Eleanor was my first mentor at Google, and her advice on how to influence other teams and craft a crisp message has been incredibly useful for my success at the company. But her advice on what it takes to get promoted was what stuck with me the most – she pointed out that you need the combination of being someone that people both want to collaborate with and someone that people are happy to see succeed. If you’re missing one of those you’re running uphill when it comes to trying to advance your career.
- ‘Your email inbox doesn’t represent your priorities, it represents other people asking for your help with their priorities’ – Tom Bergman. Tom was my first boss as a product manager, and has shaped so much of my thinking about the discipline. I could write a whole book about his amazing approach to product development, but for now just one nugget will have to suffice: his tip that your email inbox should not be how you assess where your time needs to go, because it’s open for anyone to put things in. Be responsive, certainly – and he was a great model of that! – but don’t mistake responding to emails for making progress on your own priorities.”
Advice For Advancing A Career In Digital Payments
What advice would you give someone looking to advance his/her career into the digital payments space? Thomason replied:
“Digital payments is an amazing space to work in, and I’d highly recommend it to anyone who is intellectually curious and likes solving important problems. Plus job security is very good – payments ain’t going anywhere anytime soon! For anyone who wants to come and join the fold, I have three pieces of advice for getting started.
- Learn about the basic economics of the space – how the ecosystem players make money. Follow the money and you’ll see where value is created! Patrick McKenzie’s blog is great for deep-dives on this, or else there are some good broad overview books – I recommend Payments Systems in the U.S. as a good starting point, although it is obviously very US-centric.
- If you are keen on fintech or payments but don’t have any experience, the best jumping-in point is an operations role. Every payments company needs a constant inflow of smart junior operations people, and from there it’s not so hard to jump to other roles like business development or product management. Plus you’ll build an excellent view of the inner workings of the machine, which will serve you extremely well!
- Don’t get distracted by the latest fads too much. Crypto, AI, whatever is next – they’re all cool and exciting, but the heart of payments is helping people do business with each other safely and easily. This has never changed and never will change, and by focusing on this you’ll be building your career and expertise on a solid foundation.”
Unexpected Benefits Found In Digital Payments Space
What unexpected benefits have you found in the digital payments space that you didn’t anticipate before you entered it? Thomason shared:
“Reflecting on my career working in digital payments, two big benefits really stand out.”
“Firstly, I now have a much clearer idea of what has gone wrong when one of my transactions fails, and what I can do about it! It’s much less stressful standing at the checkout to be able to say, ‘ah, that’s probably a fraud decline – let me just log into my bank app and see what’s happened’ rather than to be standing there feeling embarrassed. Of course this also demonstrates a big opportunity we still have in the industry – it shouldn’t require being an industry insider to understand and debug what’s gone wrong with a transaction! We still have a long way to go to make failure states easier for the average user to recover from.”
“The second benefit is the joy of working with wonderful, talented professionals with a long-term view. Because technology develops so fast, often working in a tech company there is a risk of having limited vision further than 12 months out. But since payments is an old game with lots of smart, sophisticated players constantly working to improve it, people are thinking about the 5-, 10-, 30-year horizons, and it’s a real privilege to be part of these conversations.”
Best Kept Secret In Digital Payments
What is the “best kept secret” in the digital payments space that isn’t really a secret at all? Why did you select this particular thing? Thomason described:
“It feels a bit self-serving, but I think my product – device tokens – is one of the best non-secrets in the digital payments space! Device tokens are just a digital representation of your credit or debit card stored on your mobile phone or smartwatch, that you can use for contactless or online payments. The reason it’s a wonderful non-secret is the huge benefits they provide to consumers in terms of security and convenience.”
“On the security side, device tokens mean that your physical credit card number is never shared with the merchant during a transaction, so there is no risk that they can then steal it to make unauthorized payments later on. And as to convenience, the device token is always available even if you’ve forgotten your wallet – it’s very unlikely you also left your phone at home! – and keeps working even if your physical card needs to be replaced. It’s a huge life unlock available to almost everyone with very little effort, so people should definitely get on board!”
Future Involvement In Digital Payments
Where do you see yourself in five years? Will you still be working in the digital payments space or will it be somewhere else? If so, where? Why? Thomason told me:
“I love the payments space; it’s the perfect combination of a hard set of intellectually stimulating problems and a massive real-world impact from solving them. I tried a lot of different industries before landing on payments but I think this is the one I’ll be in for a while. Someone said to me that payments is only 2% solved and I couldn’t agree more – there is still so much to do, and new challenges arise every day. The payments industry is a reflection of how we interact as a society, which continues to evolve! So yes; I predict I’ll still be in this space in five years, chipping away at some of the hard, important problems and enjoying seeing the downstream impact on consumers and businesses.”
Future Goals
What can we expect from Daniel Thomason that isn’t out there in the public yet? Why is this so exciting and important to you? Thomason concluded:
“I’m writing a book on how to best start a new job as a product manager, to hit the ground running in a new role. I started this project a couple of years back when I realized that there really wasn’t anything out there to help with this – there are some books that offer advice for onboarding well generally, and I have received lots of good specific advice from friends and colleagues, but nothing structured. And while the PM job varies a lot from company to company and industry to industry, there are still plenty of commonalities. Onboarding well makes such a difference to your long-term trajectory!”
“This is too important to leave up to each individual hiring manager to cobble together themselves – PMs deserve a clear approach to starting effectively. This is something I’m very passionate about: mentoring more junior colleagues is an ongoing pursuit of mine and something that I would never give up. I’ve benefited from so much good advice and help in my career, and paying it forward to the next generation of product managers is such a joy.”
